#288174 - 15/10/2006 17:27
Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Just a simple product endorsement.
While I was in in The Valley recently, Fry's had a sale on Seagate 2.5" 160GB external USB2 drives. These are the largest notebook PATA drives currently available. Fast, quiet, and cool running.
I wanted some of these to replace internal drives in a couple of machines here, so I picked up two of them. Now these came with/inside Seagate's fancy enclosures, which are great!
There's a thick and soft rubber gasket that cradles the drive, and the external shell is hard/rugged aluminum, with wrap around ventilation on all four side edges. So the drive is well protected, and doesn't overheat. In use, there's a soft whooshing noise, as if a fan was inside, but it's just the drive (no fans). 29-30MB/sec transfer rates over USB2.
Anyway, great enclosures, and the drives insides seem to be quite fast and quiet in use.
I've now removed the Seagate 160GB drives, and installed them directly inside some machines here, and then put the old drives from those machines back into the Seagate enclosures. Again, everything works fine.
I want more!!
The price I got at Fry's was US$190 for the 160GB drive+enclosure. They've since been marked back up another $30-40 or so. I wish I'd bought another two or three at the sale price. The bare drives (no enclosures) were US$230.
Cheers
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#288176 - 15/10/2006 19:23
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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So, have you tried installing them into an empeg yet??? <sigh> That was a good price... But I cannot upgrade yet... Someday... 
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#288177 - 15/10/2006 19:57
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: tfabris]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
The 80gb drive that just failed inside my Mac Mini was a seagate...
Yeah, that's a downside, for sure. I've had a a few seagates die in prior years, all the way back to the 40MB "sticktion" drives (remember those?).
These 160GB drives are the new "perpendicular" technology ones -- so no track record one way or another to speak of yet.
Cheers
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#288178 - 15/10/2006 23:44
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31601
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
the new "perpendicular" technology ones
Ah, so my experience doesn't apply. Good.
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#288179 - 16/10/2006 00:23
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
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Quote:
I want more!!
The price I got at Fry's was US$190 for the 160GB drive+enclosure. They've since been marked back up another $30-40 or so. I wish I'd bought another two or three at the sale price. The bare drives (no enclosures) were US$230.
Cheers
Friday's Fry's Ad (good through Monday) says the bare 160 is on sale for $179 no rebate/limit 4.
If you seriously want more with the enclosure, I can keep my eyes open for you.
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)
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#288180 - 16/10/2006 01:02
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Wow. That's a great price, and I also see they've lowered the non-sale price to $200.
But shipping to here would kill me (I can get the bare drives for CAD$230)..
Cheers!
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#288181 - 16/10/2006 14:24
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: Robotic]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Must resist urge to let Fry's have more of my money...
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#288182 - 16/10/2006 16:20
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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While the drives/enclosures seem really nice, the price isn't insane IMO. Just last Friday I bought a 160GB drive for my empeg. It's a Hitachi, but the price is right at $171. Then you can get an external aluminum enclosure for under $20, (or under $10) although none of the ones there sound quite as nice as the one Mark describes (and oddly the air circulation doesn't look great on any of them).
_________________________
Matt
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#288183 - 16/10/2006 16:31
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Then you can get an external aluminum enclosure for under $20, (or under $10) although none of the ones there sound quite as nice as the one Mark describes (and oddly the air circulation doesn't look great on any of them).
I have a couple of those $20 "drive cooker" enclosures, and they don't even attempt to protect the drive much at all. They *are* easier to swap drives in/out of, though. But for packing a drive to travel, or leaving one running for an extended period, the Seagate cases win.
They also spin down the drive after a shortish period of inactivity. I don't think my $20 ones do that.
Cheers
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#288184 - 16/10/2006 16:42
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
Then you can get an external aluminum enclosure for under $20, (or under $10) although none of the ones there sound quite as nice as the one Mark describes (and oddly the air circulation doesn't look great on any of them).
I have a couple of those $20 "drive cooker" enclosures, and they don't even attempt to protect the drive much at all. They *are* easier to swap drives in/out of, though. But for packing a drive to travel, or leaving one running for an extended period, the Seagate cases win.
Oh definitely. I didn't think any of those were spectacular, but I just wanted to point out that you could still get drives for a "reasonable" price if that was the objective. Plus, if the price has gone back up $40, I'm sure you can find a $60 enclosure that will do just fine.
_________________________
Matt
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#288185 - 16/10/2006 16:46
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Mark, or anyone else, do you know of a good non cooker enclosure that has firewire? I'd prefer firewire/usb2 combo ones, but would accept a firewire only solution. I'm using one right now for my Windows games on my MacBook Pro, but it is one of those cheep $20 enclosures that lets the drive get quite toasty.
Main reason I want firewire is due to the CPU utilization being near 0 for them, compared to noticeable amounts for USB2. That, and the USB ports on the laptop are handy to have free for other things.
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#288186 - 16/10/2006 17:46
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Either 2.5" or 3.5"?
_________________________
Matt
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#288187 - 16/10/2006 18:16
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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sorry, 2.5 inch. Looking for something that I can still take with the system easially.
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#288188 - 16/10/2006 21:24
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Main reason I want firewire is due to the CPU utilization being near 0 for them, compared to noticeable amounts for USB2. That, and the USB ports on the laptop are handy to have free for other things.
No knowledge of them here. But if I find any, I'll post again.
I don't know much about the CPU utilization (nothing really seems to measure it correctly enough anyway), but the overhead is definitely lower for firewire. High-end 3.5" enclosures usually score close to 40MB/sec with FW400, versus around 30-35MB/sec for USB2. And much faster than that with FW800 if you have it.
Of course, I'm just a lowly Linux user -- we've yet to get a decent firewire stack. It works, some of the time, on some of the hardware. But USB2 is rock solid.
Cheers
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#288189 - 16/10/2006 21:40
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Quote:
And much faster than that with FW800 if you have it.
Really? I've always assumed the people with the FW800 obsession for attaching a single drive were, to put it nicely, misguided. You're certainly an authoritative source, so I'll beleive you if you say it's true.
Matthew
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#288190 - 16/10/2006 22:26
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: matthew_k]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
And much faster than that with FW800 if you have it.
Really? I've always assumed the people with the FW800 obsession for attaching a single drive were, to put it nicely, misguided. You're certainly an authoritative source, so I'll beleive you if you say it's true.
As I say, I'm a Linux person, so my firewire experiences are spotty.
With FW400, my drives (in a dual-tech 3.5" enclosure) are definitely faster than with USB2.
EDIT: hang on while I try it now and measure it again
And while re-researching this a week ago, I did come across manufacturers claims (Seagate again?) that using FW800 gave transfer rates up to 70+MB/sec with their 500GB dual-tech box. Not verified here, though.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (16/10/2006 22:27)
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#288191 - 16/10/2006 22:33
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
With FW400, my drives (in a dual-tech 3.5" enclosure) are definitely faster than with USB2.
EDIT: hang on while I try it now and measure it again
Eeek.. gag.. Mmm.. I think the firewire support has worsened since the last time I measured this. Or maybe my new enclosure is not as fast as the one I used to have, the last time I checked up on it (that one got fried).
It shows USB2 at 28+MB/sec, and FW400 at 20+MB/sec. Obviously incorrect -- the busy LED flickers way too much during the FW400 test, indicating a driver issue.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (16/10/2006 22:34)
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#288192 - 16/10/2006 22:49
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
With FW400, my drives (in a dual-tech 3.5" enclosure) are definitely faster than with USB2.
EDIT: hang on while I try it now and measure it again
Eeek.. gag.. Mmm.. I think the firewire support has worsened since the last time I measured this. Or maybe my new enclosure is not as fast as the one I used to have, the last time I checked up on it (that one got fried).
It shows USB2 at 28+MB/sec, and FW400 at 20+MB/sec. Obviously incorrect -- the busy LED flickers way too much during the FW400 test, indicating a driver issue.
Okay, I dug out the "slightly fried" old dual-tech enclosure, stuck a slowish drive into it, and both USB2 and FW400 give 29.5MB/sec with it. Maybe I'll look for a fast drive to try now..
Cheers
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#288193 - 16/10/2006 22:53
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Okay, I dug out the "slightly fried" old dual-tech enclosure, stuck a slowish drive into it, and both USB2 and FW400 give 29.5MB/sec with it. Maybe I'll look for a fast drive to try now..
Cheers
Ahh.. maybe this is the culprit: I used to use it with a cardbus USB2/FW card in my Thinkpad. No longer have the Thinkpad, still have the card. Just plugged the card into my i9300 now, and.. USB2 is only 20MB/sec with that card, but the FW400 is 27MB/sec with it. So just a crummy USB2 interface.
Conclusion: when using the built-in PCIe controllers, this enclosure is equally fast/slow with USB2 or FW400, pretty much limited by wire speed & overhead. FW800 enclosures + interfaces should be double that speed at least, as claimed by Seagate.
Cheers
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#288194 - 17/10/2006 00:15
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Did a quick test here with the enclosure I have. It's a "hotdrive Mobile 2.5 HDD" enclosure with USB2 and Firewire 400. Had to dig out a wall wart for the USB part, since it seems it's not pulling enough power off even two usb cords now.
Method: cat a 1,099,777,736 byte file to /dev/null, done right after the volume was mounted to avoid caching.
5400 RPM drive USB2 connector:
real 1m9.246s
user 0m0.055s
sys 0m2.564s
15.15 MB/s
5400 RPM drive Firewire 400 connector:
real 0m43.543s
user 0m0.036s
sys 0m1.979s
24.09MB/s
7200 RPM internal SATA:
real 0m33.823s
user 0m0.026s
sys 0m1.492s
31.01MB/s
This was done under OS X 10.4.8 on a MacBook Pro 15 inch, so unfortunately no Firewire 800 ports to use. I'll try it on Windows sometime if I find a good utility for doing similar testing.
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#288195 - 18/10/2006 13:59
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: drakino]
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enthusiast
Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
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I think the catch with the segate pre packaged eternal drives is the warranty. Drives that come in enclosures were 1 year, drives alone were 5 years. At least this was the catch the last time I looked at external 3.5 " drives .
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#288196 - 18/10/2006 16:37
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: eliceo]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14496
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
I think the catch with the segate pre packaged eternal drives is the warranty. Drives that come in enclosures were 1 year, drives alone were 5 years. At least this was the catch the last time I looked at external 3.5 " drives .
Yes, that's the same for the 2.5" ones. Exactly the same drives in either case, so it's really just a matter of "do you live in the USA where a warranty has a hope in hell of ever being relevant or not". 
Warranty replacements take so long to complete, that most people just buy another drive in the meanwhile, and treat it as "bonus" if the replacement ever arrives.
Cheers
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#288197 - 18/10/2006 16:48
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: mlord]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Warranty replacements take so long to complete, that most people just buy another drive in the meanwhile, and treat it as "bonus" if the replacement ever arrives.
I haven't had a drive go bad in the past year or so, but that's definitely not the case in the US. I've probably sent back 50 drives for RMAs between WDC, Seagate, Maxtor, Toshiba, Fujitsu, and IBM. In each case, the process was relatively painless and replacement drives were sent promptly after sending out the old one. A couple of times I even got larger drives back from WDC.
After the 2004 European meet, I brought back about 10 dead empeg drives that Rob S had given-up on getting replacements for. I could only RMA 2 at a time, but despite being purchased outside of the US and being non-retail (empeg OEM parts), I was able to get a free replacement for every last one of them.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#288198 - 18/10/2006 17:25
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12341
Loc: Sterling, VA
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I was going to say the same thing, Rob. I've had pretty good experiences with drive replacements, although I've only had a couple of occasions to do so.
_________________________
Matt
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#288199 - 19/10/2006 00:19
Re: Seagate 2.5" USB2.0 Exernal drives
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
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I haven't had to wait very long for replacements either but I still take the buy a new one and the warranty replacement is a bonus attitude. When one dies for me my computer is down so I don't want to wait. I haven't had an empeg one die within the warranty period yet.
_________________________
Matt
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